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Post by nightmist on Jun 12, 2016 10:01:16 GMT -5
For me this is easy, chuck some sulfur at the problem and do a smaller application annually forevermore.
However DD3, who is starting to take a mighty interest in gardening, has notions.
So how do you do?
We have blueberries, the one holly, and roses, and I have been contemplating a hardy azalea. The soil here is naturally on the acidic side, but averages about a half point higher than the plants find comfortable. Plus since we are sitting on a shallow clay bed the PH can rise a bit in certain conditions, or if we catch a fungus the treatment will raise the PH mildly. Living downslope on a street with hydrangeas in half the yards helps a bit. In the past I got by with a dose of sulfur before planting, then mulch with peat annually. Test every year and add sulfur again as needed. I have also raked all the hardwood leaves into my beds heaping them right up on my acid loving plants. It worked, then my health went south. The roses are pale and the one blueberry has yellow and red leaves, so they are in need of a soil treatment. Rubel, the blueberry that is doing the best is planted fairly close to a yew, soil there is always 5 to 5.5. 20 feet away is Ivanhoe who has the off colored leaves. The soil around him started at 5.5 and can rise to 6.5 in a dry year. At present Ivanhoe's soil is a hair over 6. An Atlantic used to live between the two, but he was a lawnmower victim.(1) Now I am thinking we need sulfur, and if we can get some, some hardwood sawdust worked in. DD wants to use hollytone all around, she has a curious aversion to using sulfur. I have taken this opportunity to teach the girl about soil testing. I've one of those little meters that I use for quick checks, but tend rely on a regular test kit every spring, and in the fall if the meter readings are crazy. If the numbers are really wonky I pull samples and ship them off to Cornell. Getting her to understand why the fuss with testing took a bit, but I have finally got across that you have to test each bed. It was simplest to make the point by just doing it and showing her how the numbers differed bed to bed, and explaining how that came to be.
(1)Yes the nimrods worked hard and mowed down a half grown northern high bush blueberry. They had already mowed down Herbert, had just finished off Atlantic, and were getting ready to start on Ivanhoe when I came home and flew at them in a mighty rage. That is what comes of people hiring yard work and paying in beer. That was the third time my gardening fell victim to the landlords hired idiots. Rubel replaced Herbert and we added another Bluecrop to replace Atlantic.
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Post by gulfcoastguy on Jun 12, 2016 19:58:12 GMT -5
I would say that it is time to talk to the land lord. I assume that you have permission to garden on the rented property? If so requesting a $100.00 reimbursement per bush might get the point through.
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Post by nightmist on Jun 14, 2016 13:46:00 GMT -5
I would say that it is time to talk to the land lord. I assume that you have permission to garden on the rented property? If so requesting a $100.00 reimbursement per bush might get the point through. I do indeed have the landlords permission. He is very fond of my flowers. After the great lawnmower massacre (4 new blueberry bushes, 4, four foot tall shrub cherries, 2 lingonberries, a Rose of Sharon about 3 feet tall, the 2 foot Blue Girl Holly, and whole mess of flowers), I had words with my landlord. I especially pointed out that his nitwits had taken up and tossed aside those stupid little white wire fences, tossed aside the marking flags (instituted after they mowed the irises the year before), and raked out the mulch in order mow down sizable young trees and shrubs, and flowers in full bloom. Ye'uns have to admit that right there takes a special kind of stupid. I got all kinds of apologies, but when I suggested that he or they pay for the damages, all I got was, "I'll talk to them about it." 2 more lawnmower incidents later and we or the landlord himself are doing all the yard work. The total tally? those irises I mentioned NINE blueberry bushes (some were re-plants) the four shrub cherries 2 Rose of Sharon A butterfly bush The Blue Girl Holly The 2 lingonberries half the gooseberries All of my mums 3 angelicas (boy was I PO'd about those!) the daylillies a stand of chives a stand of corn (call it close to 60 plants) A patch of mixed sunflowers the canterbury bells the balloon flowers A 4x6 foot patch of legion of honor and harlequin marigolds, with nasturtiums and stocks between the two, that was in the corner of the walkway and the sidewalk inside some boughten edging. They chinked up the edging too. The last couple of yimyangs, the ones that took out the Herbert and Atlantic blueberries, actually took up fences, timbers, and flags to take up landscape fabric, put back everything but the fabric, and then mowed over the plants and the stuff they put back! They are the ones that mowed the marigolds. They must have been high on something. When I caught these last two I was very much feeling like a bowl of petunias (See "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" as to why that might be). The landlord was feeling very much like "Oh my gosh! my stupidly expensive big ass lawnmower!" That last phrase there was paraphrased because what he actually said would make small dogs faint and sailors blush. I have no idea what the total dollar cost is, but I know that to replace just the holly at the size it was before it was mowed (I had raised it up from a four inch pot), and the lingonberries, would cost well over $100. Some things came back, the shrub cherries, though more of his hired idiots killed one dead later when they were clearing out years of trash previous "handymen" had left in our basement. The iris mostly came back, the gooseberries came back. The daylillies and the chives I think just got healthier. I came to the conclusion that a Rose of Sharon or a butterfly bush in that particular spot was just a bad idea.
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Post by gulfcoastguy on Jun 14, 2016 17:06:24 GMT -5
I might would volunteer to do the yard work in return for reduced rent. I think I know what their aim was. Without any bushes in the way they could keep their fat keister on the riding lawn mower. With them they would have to weave around and weed eat. My brother in law cut down over a dozen azaleas on his property for the same reason.
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Post by nightmist on Jun 15, 2016 13:11:52 GMT -5
I might would volunteer to do the yard work in return for reduced rent. I think I know what their aim was. Without any bushes in the way they could keep their fat keister on the riding lawn mower. With them they would have to weave around and weed eat. My brother in law cut down over a dozen azaleas on his property for the same reason. I think you have the way of it, though it is one of those great big mulching push mowers with the powered wheels. That mower is a monster. I kind of felt bad for my landlord's kid, he is the one that mowed my mums. I saw him trying to turn the thing before he mowed the flowers. The mower had pretty much dragged him right over them before I got across the front lawn to help him. I made him turn it off and come in for a smoothie while DH went out and finished the job. The child was only 14 and there was nothing to him, just skin and bone. He went and weeded an infestation of bittersweet out of the currants for me while DH mowed the back yard. That was the one case where I know for a fact he was trying not to mow anything down that he shouldn't. The mums where on a slope, and gravity combined with a mower that was bigger and stronger than he was just undid him. Just for clarities sake, the mums and irises were stand alone incidents. The daylillies were mowed multiple times by multiple people. The two rose of sharon and the butterfly bush were all planted in the same spot and all mowed by separate people in the three major 'lawnmower massacres'. Those incidents were perpetrated by two different teams of people, and one guy who should have been employed sorting glass at the recycling center. That last guy puts the second incident squarely on the landlord. (It's in the lawn, Bob says mow the lawn.) So, do you do as I do for acidifying the soil for plants that need it, or do you do differently?
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Post by gulfcoastguy on Jun 15, 2016 21:24:31 GMT -5
I don't have to acidify soil. I garden in the "Piney Woods" and anywhere pine trees and azaleas are comfortable is naturally on the acid side.
As to the kid I was mowing grass when I was much younger than him and probably even skinnier. I would have to get my sister to hold the mower steady while I yanked on the cord to crank that old Yazoo big wheel push mower. My dad bought a riding lawnmower After I moved off to college.He needs to learn to push the mower parallel to the slope rather than up and down it. That leads to slipping under the mower deck. Strangely you are supposed to do the opposite thing with riding mowers. My dad was the first generation off of the farm and he didn't believe in idle hands to say the least.
I can see accidentally mowing day lilies, I can't tell them from grass unless they are blooming.
My family owned 2 rental properties and we always told the renter that they were responsible for mowing the grass. They could do it or we would give them the number of a handyman. You would probably love the 2 story with 2 acres. The previous owner ran a land scaring business and it took us months to thin down all of the abandoned stock that had grown through the bottom of their pots and planted themselves. There is a pear tree that grew to tall and thin due to overcrowding and we added some blueberry bushes. We allow gardening as long as we can verify that they aren't plowing up the septic line.
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Post by nightmist on Jun 16, 2016 12:36:10 GMT -5
I don't have to acidify soil. I garden in the "Piney Woods" and anywhere pine trees and azaleas are comfortable is naturally on the acid side. See that is why I figure Rubel is doing better than the other blueberries. He is just a few feet from that yew. Most needled evergreens will acidify their surroundings to a greater or lesser degree. In fact the first thing I went looking for after I planted the blueberries was pine straw. I could not believe that it could not be found for love nor money. Thought about those pine nuggets, but decided against them. Found a guy up the street that was chipping up a sugar maple that had been pushing on his foundation and he let me take some of the chips away. That kept them and the roses well for quite a bit. I've been thinking about heading up to one of the pine forests on state land and raking a few bushels of needles out of some of the deeper drifts. Finding somebody to help me with it right now is a bit of a chore though. As to the kid I was mowing grass when I was much younger than him and probably even skinnier. I would have to get my sister to hold the mower steady while I yanked on the cord to crank that old Yazoo big wheel push mower. My dad bought a riding lawnmower After I moved off to college.He needs to learn to push the mower parallel to the slope rather than up and down it. That leads to slipping under the mower deck. Strangely you are supposed to do the opposite thing with riding mowers. My dad was the first generation off of the farm and he didn't believe in idle hands to say the least. Dear lords when I moved into town to go to college I was at such a loss! You have to buy everything from a store, and people make such fuss about grass that does no good anywhere. The only grass that was cut when I was growing up was around the drip line of shrubs and around the flower beds. Mostly my siblings and I did that with grass shears. As to the rest, we had goats. Not having anything to work with that was not boughten, and having to buy every bit of food that went into your mouth, was some serious culture shock. I even had to swap room mates (off campus housing made that easy) because the ones I started with were shocked that I was cooking. Beyond taking stuff out of the freezer most of them had no clue. When one of them came home and found me studying at the kitchen table with a couple of loaves of bread rising in front of me they lost it. Went and complained that I was going to burn the house down. I can see accidentally mowing day lilies, I can't tell them from grass unless they are blooming. My family owned 2 rental properties and we always told the renter that they were responsible for mowing the grass. They could do it or we would give them the number of a handyman. You would probably love the 2 story with 2 acres. The previous owner ran a land scaring business and it took us months to thin down all of the abandoned stock that had grown through the bottom of their pots and planted themselves. There is a pear tree that grew to tall and thin due to overcrowding and we added some blueberry bushes. We allow gardening as long as we can verify that they aren't plowing up the septic line. Sometimes they were mowed when they weren't blooming, sometimes they were mowed down in full bloom. They are those orange ones that look a lot like tiger lillies but are not. At least I am pretty sure they are not. Any way you cannot kill them and if you do not thin them every couple of years they take over the world. When they are not blooming your have those sword leaves about 4 feet tall. If it were not for the fact that I am seriously allergic to mold I would actually consider a move south. Unfortunately the southeast would cost me a fortune in meds because of that one allergy. I was soooo sick after attending my daughters wedding on Roanoke. The doctor speculates that an allergy to live oak or the mold allergy started what morphed into pneumonia. That part of the country is pretty damp so I'm betting on the mold. The southwest would also cost me a fortune in meds though, because my body just cannot handle an arid climate. I have never been as consistently ill as I was when we lived on the eastern slope of Colorado. When I went out to the front range for my mom's funeral inside of 24 hours of arriving I was bleeding from both nose and ears. I am better off where I am, though I confess I have thought about moving farther north, have to be New England or Canada to manage that.
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Post by directsunlight on Jun 19, 2016 8:10:11 GMT -5
Have always wanted blueberries, but ph is really high. I've heard it takes yea RS to fix that. I'd try a pot but most things struggle in pots from June-September here because it is so hot. Would also need a pot that could stand the occasional drop into the teens or 20s in the winter. There are areas I definitely haven't figured out yet!
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Post by nightmist on Jun 19, 2016 13:13:46 GMT -5
Have always wanted blueberries, but ph is really high. I've heard it takes yea RS to fix that. I'd try a pot but most things struggle in pots from June-September here because it is so hot. Would also need a pot that could stand the occasional drop into the teens or 20s in the winter. There are areas I definitely haven't figured out yet! For blueberries your PH goal is anywhere between 4 and 5. You can initially hit that faster than you think, even in alkaline soil. It does require serious maintenance though. When you are altering the natural PH of the soil you are committed to test and amend as needed forevermore as part of your standard garden maintenance. It will always be trying to revert back to what it was to begin with. I've got some blueberries planted across the front of the house and those take a lot of fussing. If the weather is too wet, lime from the foundation washes in raising the PH. If the weather is too dry water rises from the clay bed and raises the PH. I have taken to testing those with the meter every month, and confirming with a regular kit if the number is bad. Blueberries make an attractive landscape feature, but I would never plant them that close to the house again. So far as climate, maybe some of those new southern highbush varieties could do it? How hot does it get? I can tell you that the Bluecrops I have planted handle temperatures approaching 90F a heck of a lot better than the older varieties I've got. Bear in mind they also take a fair bit of water to thrive, and they need cooler temps to bloom and fruit properly. If nothing else they do have those dwarf varieties that you can grow in hanging planters. I have never tried them, so I can't say how well they produce, but they are small enough you could bring them in in extreme weather. If you do try those put them out someplace you get a lot of pollinators. Blueberries are not self pollinating. The reason I plant a number of different kinds is you get better fruit set with a variety. Now I expect somebody will disagree with that, but IME that seems to be true with blueberries and a number of different fruits. I think there are 3 or 4 different kinds of those dwarf varieties.
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Post by directsunlight on Jun 19, 2016 17:12:39 GMT -5
In June and September highs are 90-95. In July-August, lows near 80 and highs 95-low 100s, with an occasional unlucky 105-110. You're right, I think Darrow and a couple of other kinds can handle it. Ph the last time I took it (a long time ago)was between 8 and 9. Potatoes don't do too well here either, I'm guessing because they can't get iron from the ground because the Ph blocks them from absorbing it. That's my theory.
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Post by nightmist on Jun 21, 2016 12:33:48 GMT -5
In June and September highs are 90-95. In July-August, lows near 80 and highs 95-low 100s, with an occasional unlucky 105-110. You're right, I think Darrow and a couple of other kinds can handle it. Ph the last time I took it (a long time ago)was between 8 and 9. Potatoes don't do too well here either, I'm guessing because they can't get iron from the ground because the Ph blocks them from absorbing it. That's my theory. Yeah that kind of Ph can be tricky to grow things in. A fair number of plants like sweet soil, potatoes are not one of them. Potatoes prefer acid soil, that is one of the first things my family learned when they moved west. If I recall correctly white potatoes like a PH around 6, as do sweet potatoes. Those african yams actually prefer a PH around a 5.5 (had to look that one up to refresh my memory). I do not know of a staple root crop that likes a higher PH. Now when I was working at a cafe on the eastern slope, one of my co workers had a method by which she grew a small number of annuals that prefer more acidic conditions, though she started out doing it trying to conserve water. What she basically did was turn raised bed gardening on it's head. She would recruit her kids and grandkids to help her dig holes, at least a foot deep and 4-6 feet square, then she would fill those holes with boughten compost and whatever organics she could lay hands on, and plant in that, making sure the top of the planting surface was between 4 and 6 inches below the ground level. she would often edge those beds with peat or some other organic that would hold water, sometimes just one of the spongier potting soils. Over the decades that she lived there it improved her property no end, she could grow something besides prickly pear and yucca, plus she did not have near as much choya as the rest of us did. It took a lot of water though.
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Post by directsunlight on Jul 4, 2018 10:41:51 GMT -5
I noticed that some root crops do ok here, if they are planted near the right time in the spring. Potatoes though, 1 person i know has good results...
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Post by garrett on Jul 20, 2018 8:48:52 GMT -5
Just reading about lawnmower massacres I'd be chasing somebody lol With my truck That will get point across As far as soil? Y'all know my m.o. Lol
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