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Post by garrett on Nov 9, 2011 13:37:21 GMT -5
been doing a lot of reading.apple trees from seeds. yes i know they wont grow true.lol but given the smallest possible chance of growing a new undiscovered one? smiles i believe at a year or so the leaves will manifest crabapple traits? if so one could cull the less desirable trees.and continue with the more true to type varients?
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Post by w8n4dave on Nov 9, 2011 21:41:14 GMT -5
Why not just get a crab apple?? Do they grow where you are?? I can send you some seeds Lord knows we got Crab apples up north
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2011 13:54:36 GMT -5
been doing a lot of reading.apple trees from seeds. Yes i know they wont grow true.lol. But given the smallest possible chance of growing a new undiscovered one? smiles. i believe at a year or so the leaves will manifest crabapple traits? if so one could cull the less desirable trees.and continue with the more true to type variants? Garret, I dunno of anyone who can tell apples apart by their leaf. So, no. I doubt if you could select for table vs crab apples annually. Before you scuff the dirt with your boot and leave sad. Let me paint with a very wide brush. You are already eating delicious, and granny smith's, and a couple other grown from seed. Granny Smith lived in New Zealand, and her tree was the scion of every granny smith you've ever et by that name. Her named apple was a volunteer tree grown from seed. There are a couple strains of (tomato background music should start playin' about now) delicious, some were accessions (more on that later), some were simple grown from seed knock offs. Some're (knock-offs) better'n others. IMO the worst of them delicious knock offs are more than suitable as a table apple. Most often crabs get grown in orchards because they make good pollen. Some a them others don't. Usually the grower who says a crab apple doesn't make good sauce, is minding his scales and not his breakfast toast. Commercial orchardists sell their product by the ton. Most homesteaders make their jelly by the gallon. The orchardist who disparages "cider" or "sauce" apples is coloring his harvest by a whole 'nother standard than thee or me So, the variability of apples grown from seed becomes a bogey only to an orchardist, and not necessarily to thee and me. But as you note, with the passage of time some of the apples we grow out from seed, that do not have a steady market at the still vinegar mill, will probably go under the chain saw. Not all will, and for the homesteader who is a little light in the wallet will start foraging for desirable top wood to graft with as he starts his apple trees from seed. So yes its worth the few idle moments to toss a few seeds inna pot. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2011 18:02:41 GMT -5
Having lived in new england for a longish time, cold (eis-bock) distilling was more in the vogue than a pot-still. I can say a single freezing will make about 80-100 proof shine and doesn't leave a whole lot of anoying copper kettles behind to inflame revenuers.
In my humble opinion appler cider is eloquently suited to cold distiliation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2011 19:58:00 GMT -5
Heirloom names.
Now this is a tree growing thread, but I expect a solid majority of the gardeners here have at least run their eyes down a list of tomatoes and run over a multiplicity of "Brandywine" named cultivars. There are at least as many ways to get more than one strain of an apple as there are for tomato.
One way is by accession (which is more obvious onna apple tree). Did Spiderman's pet arachnid bite the tree? A glancing blow from a Fukajima gama ray? Nobody really seems to know. Accessions are easier to note on woody plants, the whole plant is bigger and that genetically changed limb comes back from year to year. Apple is not the best candidate for air layering, so grafting is often how this kind of mutation gets propagated.
Still not every accession has a definable 'better' something to cause it to be propagated. Most times, better apples (or peaches pears persimmon) happen cause somebody did it the old fashioned way and planted an intentionally or providentially made seed.
Breeding fruit trees intentionally I'd leave to state agriculture programs. Providing for my family looks more like my job. But thats just me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2011 8:41:51 GMT -5
Garret is doing his (?) homework and asking lots of questions. Some of the answers evoked are in minor specialist language. "M" and a number: "M", when you see it in relationship to rootstock means Malling. This collection of, and numbered by hierachy of size. Modern orchards often use Malling rootstock to both speed fruit (apple) production and reduce tree size. Where Malling rootstocks don't fit Garrets bill is they aint free. FWIW the tallest of my crab apple bonsai that set fruit are only twenty inches tall. There is more than one way to peel this apple...
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Post by garrett on Nov 15, 2011 14:35:54 GMT -5
coppice from what i have read....so far..... apples are a pure grab bag.lol...genetics wise.quite a few genes to play with.lol citrus and some stonefruit are looking more promising to my eye. going to buy some out of country seeds for ponderosa lemon,some mandarin,and pomelo.and some hawaiin peaches.a lot of the indiginous india fruits look interesting as well. thanks fer the info.smiles garrett
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2011 15:46:55 GMT -5
You got at least one email offer somewhere in cyberspace.
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Post by garrett on Nov 15, 2011 22:23:40 GMT -5
smiles on the ex's puter right now.will answer in am.short answer is ohhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! big smiles.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2011 8:14:37 GMT -5
smiles on the ex's puter right now.will answer in am.short answer is ohhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! big smiles. Ok heres the deal. I have a pot with at least a couple pawpaw (potential) trades in it, out doors doing what woody plant seed are supposed to do--namely sleeping off the winter months, thinking about growing in the spring. What I need from you: nothing more than a pm with an address so send seed off to. What I don't have here is enough room to turn around and scratch. I'm not going to unpot seeds, till I get a snail to ship to. What you need to do: put seeds the same day you get them into a pot with 1/2 peat (or finished compost) and, 1/2 sand. Stick that pot right back outdoors. Cold stratification means seed gets rained and or snowed on and cold and warm in a repeating cycle that nature can provide, but fridges and freezers cannot. Once seedlings germinate, you are gonna let baby trees stay in their pot till they go dormant the next fall. I leave mine all together that first growing season. If you want a second year grow out in pot tease them apart gently when dormant and repot on bigger pots. One a these years you are gonna want to plant to feild. Take your time now to figure out where they can get some shade. pawpaw has a big leaf and finicky roots. Once you plant this tree to feild your stuck with them where ever they're planted. 9 out of 10 pawpaw planted to field will not tolerate another transplantation.
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Post by garrett on Nov 18, 2011 16:13:26 GMT -5
ordered in some peaches,plums,apricot from hongkong yesterdy.jackfruit too.rotfl........ thai apples and a few other delights.smiles pomelo on the way too.net cost around 30.00 amount of enjoyment i'll have? priceless
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 11:03:19 GMT -5
ordered in some peaches,plums,apricot Prunus do tend to grow more true to type. Thats the good news. Unfortunately they are all prone to a borer. That borer can only be controlled by spray, which is way-way off program for organic practice. Even if you work out a lock-step program to replace borer kilt trees. It (the borer) is gonna poke holes in your peach basket, if you do not spray.
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Post by garrett on Nov 20, 2011 12:39:48 GMT -5
was over at my uncles house last night.told him bout my crazy project.he gave me a lemon off his baby tree.seeds looked viable.so me and kiddo potted up 12 or so in some 4 inch pots filled with purdy composted soil.we'll see.i don't know what to expect.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 11:20:50 GMT -5
Oh I think the sweat equity needed to produce a home orchard is well returned by the dividend over time.
I don't think I've ever met a stone fruit, I didn't like. Just know that every tree has its achilles heel.
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Post by garrett on Nov 28, 2011 10:12:09 GMT -5
just popped fifty wild persimmon seeds fer.99 cents.lol
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Post by garrett on Nov 29, 2011 11:28:46 GMT -5
ok black walnut potted up.20 or so.paw paw is potted.biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig smiles. hickories and more to come.
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Post by luvstoplant on Nov 30, 2011 6:04:57 GMT -5
Is anyone here familar with chestnuts? I know there is Chinese, Japanese. American and European. I am trying to identify one...that is thought to be a Chinese ...the pods are almost impossible to touch with gloves on.
...I recall as a child picking up chestnut pods easily and eating the nuts inside ...also wondering what chestnut tree that possibly could be.
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Post by garrett on Dec 7, 2011 15:46:19 GMT -5
luvs i'll do some snoopin fer ya.smiles
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Post by garrett on Dec 7, 2011 15:48:12 GMT -5
i am stoked.my hong kongs got here. jackfruit,apple fuji cross,crabapples from china,black plum,sweetsop,rose cherry plum,hawaiin peaches,apricot.
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Post by garrett on Dec 11, 2011 10:25:48 GMT -5
iffin seeds cooperate i'll be potting up roughly 1000 trees in march.lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2011 12:20:38 GMT -5
Thats a lot of starts.
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Post by grapenut on Dec 11, 2011 15:21:05 GMT -5
I'm thinking that 6-8 ft is too close and a 10 - 12 ft spacing would do a lot better with the fruit trees...unless you want to do more pruning than normal. Nut trees like Hickory, Pecan and Walnut are going to need at least a 20 ft spacing with this spacing being especially important with the Blk Walnut and regular Walnut as there crowns get massive. I have a 15 yr old Walnut and it's crown spread is at least 20 ft, the trees will grow in the tight spacing your considering, but I think that fruit and nut production will be severely compromised ...just something to think about.
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Post by garrett on Dec 13, 2011 12:17:02 GMT -5
lol a lotta starts.we'll see what comes up.lol i dunno still working spacing out.i have some time yet.smiles
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 15:41:48 GMT -5
One pot of cranberries went out a wintersown today. Out in the garden with nothing but a little straw for a lid to keep things damp.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 15:43:40 GMT -5
Is anyone here familar with chestnuts? I know there is Chinese, Japanese. American and European. I am trying to identify one...that is thought to be a Chinese ...the pods are almost impossible to touch with gloves on. ...I recall as a child picking up chestnut pods easily and eating the nuts inside ...also wondering what chestnut tree that possibly could be. Most likely american, less likely european, least likely cause they taste like *ick*, Chinese.
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Post by garrett on Jan 5, 2012 0:25:28 GMT -5
wish i knew...mine would be for american varieties.
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Post by garrett on Feb 24, 2012 16:54:01 GMT -5
well i just got back from walmart. me and uncle looking at pots of seeds outside. guess what? looks like we got two hickory and or walnus up.rotfl life is good.smiles
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Feb 24, 2012 19:08:34 GMT -5
just keep the walnut away from your maters Redperson. Otherwise, I'd say you got a Bonus there!
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Post by garrett on Feb 25, 2012 21:50:50 GMT -5
one more popped today.lol we're on our way. citrus is still all green and happy in new pots.lol a mon or two and then to the arks!
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