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Post by garrett on May 15, 2012 14:58:04 GMT -5
copp i think you said bark mulch is an awesome thing fer trees.lol fer the neck on a budget? do tree limbs get me there?just as good? whole logs?
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2012 22:17:14 GMT -5
Its air Red, Its air in the soil. So its not air by the cup or quart in a single air pocket, but by the scrap and millileter, by the thousands.
Hugel culture logs won't take you to where you needs to be. If you were training your tree babies to trays, the soil might be 10% air and have the ability for water to drain out quick as can be.
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Post by garrett on May 18, 2012 11:26:13 GMT -5
thanks copp.smiles doin what i can. busy busy busy.lol
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Post by garrett on May 20, 2012 10:26:37 GMT -5
did sapling in chief throw any bonsai pots yet? smiles
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 8:43:35 GMT -5
No the sapling-In-Chief has not thrown any pots yet darn her. Now its real unlucky to count chickens before they're hatched, *but* if these cranberry babies live, I may stick some in your fall care package once they is dormant. It is one of the "heath" sized shrubs. Heath's max out at something shorter than 24" tall. I don't think upland blueberries will survive the deep south, but there is likely sparkle or huckle berries native to you red. these will be forage, and not shopping adventures.
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Post by garrett on May 24, 2012 14:59:22 GMT -5
awesome copp.we'll be a ready.pawpaw slow here too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 4:29:23 GMT -5
I have been bringing a tree-baby with me each day to do some summertime grooming on it at wisteria camp ground. Yesterdays tree was a sugar maple that I had cut the surface of each first generation leaf down to a narrow pie wedge (in like May). Yesterday I finished my Adams-family pruning and cut off all those first generation leaves, leaving only the smaller second generation leaves. I make normal arborists, um very very angry.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2012 4:31:43 GMT -5
did sapling in chief throw any bonsai pots yet? smiles She's been way busy at Wisteria campground, cooking for hippys. I may never live long enough to get a pot that I can use to exhibit a tree at the Athens state fair...
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Post by garrett on Jul 10, 2012 9:41:10 GMT -5
smiles keep nagging her copp.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2012 9:59:11 GMT -5
Hm, the Mens Utili-kilt Parade went down a couple days before this current starwood closed.
Now if they just likes a little you get mooned, but if they really likes ya, you get the full (face forward) monty...
Any way, back on topic. Its way way easier to take your time and search for the native trees to use for bonsai than it is go to store or web for them.
It for sure is a load lighter on your wallet.
Foraging will not get you every possible tree that could grow in your biome, next week.
But untill you've foraged for a year or three, and kept the stumps you collect alive, you don't really know where you do want to grow next.
Garret already has several crab apple babies to select from. Hell those alone can keep a body busy for a good while. First Garret is going to grow them in-field for three to ten years. Next he's gonna practice stumping them in-field, and letting them grow again or starting to cut-short the root mass for training pot growth. That there is another two to five years gone to get his now potted trees roots trimmed to live in a shallow pot.
And only then is gonna pot to something that he might need made special or bought for a single use.
One never knows just what kinda special use pot might turn up with up to twenty years to look for it passively.
I wish I coulda kept all the tree babies I had in bonsai pots. I only held back the ugly ducklings and each has done well with more fiddling and fewer mates...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2012 9:00:02 GMT -5
Most of my tree babies cycle in and out of proportional bonsai pots and back into training pots as I do things to them.
One of my crabs will get girdled next spring and the trunk girdle treated with rooting homeone. This will forse it to grow a whole new set of feet that will let me cut off the old roots and when done replant in a shallow(er) bonsai pot.
I have a pear that I need to start to nibble at its coppicing stump. So when that long in the future time comes its old trunk wound will not be as noticable. Only time will tell if I can disguise it totaly.
Each of these trees have been tinkered on by me just about daily from 1995-2000 till present.
I do have a few trees, that are now just about only on a seasonal diet of repotting, fertilization, and daily watering. These have had just about all the major pruning that I can forsee them needing.
I have not sought new trees since well before my last move. oh a few come to me. I wouldn't mind a couple more boxwoods azalea and Japan maples to fall into my lap, But I aint gonna loose any sleep searching the internet to buy more.
If I was honest to my tree babies, I'd be starting now to cultivate their next generation of parents...
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Post by garrett on Jul 23, 2012 0:27:52 GMT -5
garrett's probly gonna be verrrrrrrrrrry busy/lol
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Post by garrett on Jul 23, 2012 0:28:39 GMT -5
so it really is multi generational?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 10:43:37 GMT -5
so it really is multi generational? A tree lives in a pot a little more than 3/4 it would in nature. For many trees this factors into centuries. The extreme end of this was one rascal who did collect some high country bristlecone pine seeds, after about thirty years it became clear he was never going to live long enough to style his tree babies. On the living fast end, I will probably never try again to style a paper (or grey) birch. Its takes a longish time to get the bark to take up its mature white color, and that is most of its life span in a pot. I let my last few Bear oaks (quercus ilicifolia) go when I moved. I might not listen to my own good advice. They are very slow. More later
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 12:53:06 GMT -5
Later.
I just got the last of my chest freezer planned meals out of wisteria freezer. We had a major power outage and I ran stuff out there to get by.
Things that do not make good bonsai: Doesn't tolerate root pruning (paw paw) Internode length will not reduce, the length of space between branches Does not bud back at all, or well (pines*) Leaves will not reduce (or has large compound leave) Chestnut, walnut KY-coffee Sycamore Bark breaks down with handling, sycamore Grows glacially slowly, most oaks bristle cone pine You can not supply its weather needs, sequoia deep in the southwest (too hot & dry)
The ultimate goal of bonsai is to prune a well maintained tree to look just like a full sized tree of mature age. So a tree that can be encouraged by root and leaf pruning to grow a more compact tree with smaller leaves jumps to the front of the forest.
There are probably a million Japanese gardeners that will disagree with pines being on the do not grow list. Many examples of pine-bonsai exist. Just its sorta counter intuitive how to prune them, and there are large chunks of the south where it near impossible to keep them alive. You can take some of the cold (and dry) out of winter for tender trees, its a big lift to keep a tree cool and damp.
Learning how to see what has been done to good bonsai and trees we grow to field, and where trees you want to collect in-field are growing costs nothing but the time it takes to really look at trees.
Garret when you were a pup, did you go search for arrowheads? This is a classic training for foraging skills.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 13:55:27 GMT -5
Garret as he climbs up out of the file-cellar at the IBC (internet bonsai club), "what is this ficus stuff"?
Figs (ficus) are just about the biggest family of fruiting trees there is world wide. An' nope I don't grow them. Living as I did in frosty New Hampshire with my tree babies The few trees I kept that were not at all cold hearty, needed to do more stuff than a fig does.
I keep few spruce and no pines even though they are cold hearty. Because they just sit there. They don't have an autumnal colored foliage. They don't bloom. They just sit there and be green.
This is rather like watching a test pattern on TV. With its conjoined white noise. After a few seconds it evokes from me, "that was fun, whats on the other channels?"
Will fig do the tree thing for you? Beats me. About all I'm sure of is figs are easy to propagate. This sole feature is what I suspect gets it a front spot on the bench at the bonsai store.
Tender trees I kept, or will continue to keep:
Texas Ebony-asymmetrical day opening tiny compound leaves, blooms has autumnal foliage Olive, Oleo Europa, waxy silver leaves has small fruit when mature enough Pomegranate, one of the harder trees to support in its dry & dormant winter quarters Japanese-Indian azalea, nice waxy leaves, buds back well, blooms like its Marti gras. Bay leaf tree, bigish leaves means it needs to be a bigish bonsai, that is probelmatic when space is at a premium. Rosemary, scented, makes low branches (so its easy to propagate), good cookiing spice.
If it was me I'd be buying one a these long before I'd splurge for a fig.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 7:45:51 GMT -5
If Nobukana Kajiya was a rail-road magnate who harvested no bonsai before its time . Zeko Nakamura was Milton Berle's' equivalent on fifties Japanese TV. What made him stand out in his field was how little his trees were. Of note to me was he kept up his hobby through WW-II in Tokyo. Post WW-II he also photographed his trees a lot, so there are still examples of his work with darned near nothing. At one time he had his trees on a card table bolted to his attic window sill. Zeko used a pack of Lucky Strikes as the yardstick to show his trees size, he did that so often that its one way to figure out credits for his trees. It is also about how big he let his trees grow (about 3" tall). I have not rummaged in the way-back machine to search for old IBC (internet bonsai club) photos, But old ones of his are among them...
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Post by garrett on Jul 28, 2012 9:30:46 GMT -5
still reading all this wonderful stuff copp.a lot to digest.grins preciates yas.smiles
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 11:01:07 GMT -5
I'm having a stupid man-day. There is a twenty something writing on another web site who sounds like he about has it down how to keep a tree alive. But he's early on, on how to prune his trees to augment their appearance of great age. And this is where art starts to creep into arbor-culture.
The first trees I tinkered with, well, they was train wrecks. This young bonsai-ist' work is at that train wreck stage.
I ain't gonna tell him that tho. There be nothing in it for him or me.
Where I will bust his bubble a little, is he needs older trees to do his work on. Right now he's trying to paint a postage stamp.
So anyhow a couple towns over is a fellow who is trying to remove some upright yew and has chainsawed some bushes to stumps as fat and ragged as can be. I gotta get the SIL and my fat arse over there to take out a couple. Even though this is the worst possible time to transplant trees.
SIL keeps sneaking up on my trees and pinching a leaf or three. He looks significantly afflicted with bonsaitis. If any of these to-be-collected yews survive, he can start butchering them with about a ten year jump on my work.
If I can keep those yew alive I will also put it to my twenty-something corespondent who claims he can't get any off of free-cycle. If'n I can, he can too.
Now Red living much-much south of me might want to wait till Christmas break from A&P before he goes out shovel in hand to forage for tree stumps...
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Post by Train on Aug 4, 2012 15:40:45 GMT -5
Ya I have read with interest this entire thread. I think the subject matter is one which many are interested in and therefore should continue. I admire Tom's enthusiasm and wish him continued success. I have been interested in Bonsai for many many years but had always been to busy or never felt there was a space to devote to this fine art. An item of interest may be an old publication on the subject published by the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens back in 1966. It is still available at www.amazon.com/Handbook-On-Bonsai-Special-Techniques/dp/B000B9P79OLazy old Gorilla as I am I never checked to see if the publisher still has any. A mere 86 pages stuffed with very interesting information. Nothing like hearing from an author like Tom but with much for those hoping as I am. I hope I encouraged this thread rather than otherwise. Train
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 20:11:42 GMT -5
There are two books on bonsai from Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, and one for container grown plants that could be Germaine to arbor culture and container growing tomato-addicts.
The good thing(s) is each was reprinted about a kajillion time in large press runs. The two bonsai topical ones were reprinted 40+ times. So neither should be pricey. And the book peddler who insists they are rare or valuable is stoned or drunk.
I love those books.
FWIW the older trees of Japanese diplomatic corps donation, that were the back bone of BBG's collection in these books were stolen and have disappeared.
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Post by garrett on Aug 5, 2012 1:54:10 GMT -5
grins
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 6:28:42 GMT -5
Useless trivia about prunus as bonsai. Often prunus get a bad rep as bonsai. Prunus seem to me to be vulnerable to copper.
So as long as you are not wiring branches (which uses copper wire), or, copper tree-tags your peach plum cherry should be OK.
Clean tools between working each tree. Which is probably good general advice for any bonsai.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 6:35:31 GMT -5
Ya I have been interested in Bonsai for many many years but had always been to busy or never felt there was a space to devote to this fine art. Train Train what do you think it would take to push you over the edge, and try a tree or three inna shallow pot? FWIW every new grower kills some or all of their first trees. Its my job to put you off from the things I tried that just killed a whole lotta my baby trees.
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Post by garrett on Aug 9, 2012 2:02:21 GMT -5
you can do it train.smiles
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 12:23:52 GMT -5
I dunno if Red is going to train some of his tree babies as bonsai, but if he sticks with his plantation, he's going to do every single thing I do in the pursuit of growing his own big-boy trees.
The difference between growing an apple tree twenty feet tall, and one two feet tall is one of intent, not one of skill.
Skill if there is any for bonsai is when you stand a few feet away from a bonsai at a bench and several feet away from a second planted in the ground, and the two look like they are twins...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2012 8:33:31 GMT -5
The sapling-In-Cheif visited the other day, wearing her pottery cloths.
(hint pottery cloths are 10-25% by wieght clay)
An' she said she had built some bonsai pots...
Causing my ears to wiggle with joy...
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Post by garrett on Aug 26, 2012 9:45:19 GMT -5
awesommmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! christmas came early.lol happy fer the older sapling.smiles
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 10:43:19 GMT -5
She was clay from chin to ankle, I dunno if the tossed em on her wheel, or coiled them. This is still a ways away from fired, and glazed and refired...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 13:22:48 GMT -5
Where is the place on a person that resonates when good art is viewed? Is it near to the place that tingles when umami is tasted? Which part of a bodies eye bone gets poked? All I am pretty sure of fiddling with my tree babies hits some a that place. Jack Winkle in his post on another thread here grew his trees to fit his pots. Which has to be about as backwards from my labors as is possible to be. I'm not sure either one of us is going at this correctly. But it is for sure possible to come to this from very different ends. Here is Jacks article again: www.annarborbonsaisociety.org/documents/FluLgtBonsaiWithPic.pdf
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